Black Stuff from Fried Ballast - Is it Safe?

[j***@netzero.net]

I bought a 22-year old industrial electric sign, and it didn't light
up. An electrician that helped me look at it while fixing another
unrelated problem one day showed me that the ballast was shot, and
pointed out some wacky black 'stuff' that had oozed from the ballast.
I found an identical ballast and intend to replace it wire-for-wire,
but to remove it I most likely will have to cut through the black stuff
to get to a bolt.
Anyone have an idea what this is made of, and most importantly, is it
safe to touch and/or cut through?
Here's a link to a picture of it:
Loading Image...
Thanks,

-Steelskin

[TKM]

Post by j***@netzero.net
I bought a 22-year old industrial electric sign, and it didn't light
up. An electrician that helped me look at it while fixing another
unrelated problem one day showed me that the ballast was shot, and
pointed out some wacky black 'stuff' that had oozed from the ballast.
I found an identical ballast and intend to replace it wire-for-wire,
but to remove it I most likely will have to cut through the black stuff
to get to a bolt.
Anyone have an idea what this is made of, and most importantly, is it
safe to touch and/or cut through?
http://www.johnspangler.com/share/deloreansign14.jpg
Thanks,
-Steelskin

The black stuff is asphalt and sand. It melted and oozed out when the
ballast insides overheated and failed. Another name for the stuff is
"potting compound". It keeps the ballast quiet and helps dissipate the
heat. It's no more hazardous than asphalt pavement.

If the ballast was made prior to the early part of 1977, there's a chance
that the capacitor inside could contain PCBs. Check at www.lamprecycle.org
to see what to do with the ballast if that is the case. Chances are that
the PCBs did not leak out of the ballast though.

If you're lucky, the ballast label may be marked "No PCBs"; otherwise you
might have to check with the manufacturer to find out when it was made. If
it is a GE ballast, go to http://tinyurl.com/6ukcr to interpret the date
code.

Terry McGowan

[j***@netzero.net]

...sand and asphalt? That sounds like it's going to be a challenge to
get through. It looked like charcoal or foam or something relatively
brittle and/or soft. Grr. I looked at the brand new, same-model
ballast made by France and it says "No PCB's" on it so I think I'm at
least safe there.
It'd be easier if I could take the whole tray with the ballast out, but
it's welded in there. This is getting harder as I go along. It took
me 2 days to unscrew the top off the thing since several of the screws
rusted.
Guess I'll start taking a stab at it.
Thanks,

-Steelskin

[j***@netzero.net]

For anyone still reading this, I made a wiring diagram of the setup (so
I can replace it) and managed to remove the busted ballast. The nuts
were so far out of the way it's unbelievable. 2 were pretty crusted on
as well. Getting through the black stuff was easier than I thought,
though, in a word, "NAAASTY." It was about twice as tough as the
hardest ice cream I've cut through, except it stuck to everything.

Now I've discovered one of the bulb mounts has broken off (the whole
unit, not a little piece), so I've got to decide how to at least
stabilize it. I think someone dropped this mammoth some time ago since
one of the bulbs has shattered as well. The sign is 13' wide and 3'
high and there's no good apparent way to get to anything except through
the small 6" slit at the top, without busting out some rivets.

Wish me luck!

-Steelskin

[TKM]

Post by j***@netzero.net
For anyone still reading this, I made a wiring diagram of the setup (so
I can replace it) and managed to remove the busted ballast. The nuts
were so far out of the way it's unbelievable. 2 were pretty crusted on
as well. Getting through the black stuff was easier than I thought,
though, in a word, "NAAASTY." It was about twice as tough as the
hardest ice cream I've cut through, except it stuck to everything.
Now I've discovered one of the bulb mounts has broken off (the whole
unit, not a little piece), so I've got to decide how to at least
stabilize it. I think someone dropped this mammoth some time ago since
one of the bulbs has shattered as well. The sign is 13' wide and 3'
high and there's no good apparent way to get to anything except through
the small 6" slit at the top, without busting out some rivets.
Wish me luck!
-Steelskin

There should be a way to remove at least one of the sign faces. They may
have a lot of clips to prevent the face from blowing out in high winds, but
that's the way that sign companies typically service the lighting. You
should replace the broken fluorescent lamp socket especially if it is the
2-contact type (two wires going to each end of the lamp) since lamp life
depends upon the 3.5 volts between the two pins at each end of the lamp for
proper life. If the lamps have single pins on the ends, then they are of
the instant start type and need a fairly high voltage to start. A broken
socket might not hold the lamp properly.

Terry McGowan

[j***@netzero.net]

The sign is a single face model, and as I've discovered, the best way
in is from the bottom. I cleaned out all the glass and debris today,
and it looks like the bulb mount will be an easy fix (rivets pulled
through mounting tray, bulb mounts are just fine) It might be fixed
sooner than I thought!

The bulb that shattered into literally thousands of pieces no bigger
than a quarter did so graciously leave me with one piece about 4" long
that has the bulb part number and it's a single post-style bulb. I'm
probably going to have to find a new one at some specialty store rather
than Home Depot or the like.
Project for tomorrow!

-Steelskin

[TKM]

Post by j***@netzero.net
The sign is a single face model, and as I've discovered, the best way
in is from the bottom. I cleaned out all the glass and debris today,
and it looks like the bulb mount will be an easy fix (rivets pulled
through mounting tray, bulb mounts are just fine) It might be fixed
sooner than I thought!
The bulb that shattered into literally thousands of pieces no bigger
than a quarter did so graciously leave me with one piece about 4" long
that has the bulb part number and it's a single post-style bulb. I'm
probably going to have to find a new one at some specialty store rather
than Home Depot or the like.
Project for tomorrow!
-Steelskin

Then the lamp is likely a "slimline" or instant start T12. Oddly enough,
the local HD does carry them in this area, so give it a try. The 4 and 8
foot lamps are the most popular.

Terry McGowan

[j***@netzero.net]

I got it running!

Loading Image...

Yes, you are correct they are all T12 style instant start bulbs. It
wouldn't light without all the bulbs in there at the same time, either.
One of the bulbs was about a foot longer than the other (naturally the
ONLY one I didn't actually measure) so I had to go back to the lighting
place today, since they were closed weekends. None of the regular
hardware stores here had them but they were pretty cheap, like $4-5 per
bulb. They're rated at 5000 hours, so, that's like the rest of my life
with occasional use for about $22. Over the weekend I installed the
new ballast and today I popped in the last bulb, and attached a
replacement cord to the ballast. With fire extinguisher handy and
safety glasses on... it lit up instantly!! I had a real Clark Griswold
moment there.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and whatnot!

-Steelskin

[TKM]

Post by j***@netzero.net
I got it running!
http://www.johnspangler.com/share/deloreansignlit.jpg
Yes, you are correct they are all T12 style instant start bulbs. It
wouldn't light without all the bulbs in there at the same time, either.
One of the bulbs was about a foot longer than the other (naturally the
ONLY one I didn't actually measure) so I had to go back to the lighting
place today, since they were closed weekends. None of the regular
hardware stores here had them but they were pretty cheap, like $4-5 per
bulb. They're rated at 5000 hours, so, that's like the rest of my life
with occasional use for about $22. Over the weekend I installed the
new ballast and today I popped in the last bulb, and attached a
replacement cord to the ballast. With fire extinguisher handy and
safety glasses on... it lit up instantly!! I had a real Clark Griswold
moment there.
Thanks to all for your suggestions and whatnot!
-Steelskin

Congratulations! The way traditional slimline lamp circuits work is that
when a lamp is removed, input power to the ballast is cut. So, no surprise
that nothing worked until all of the lamps were in place. The lampholder is
designed such that the single lamp pin bridges the connection.

Terry McGowan

[Clive Mitchell]

Post by j***@netzero.net
I bought a 22-year old industrial electric sign, and it didn't light
up. An electrician that helped me look at it while fixing another
unrelated problem one day showed me that the ballast was shot, and
pointed out some wacky black 'stuff' that had oozed from the ballast. I
found an identical ballast and intend to replace it wire-for-wire, but
to remove it I most likely will have to cut through the black stuff to
get to a bolt. Anyone have an idea what this is made of, and most
importantly, is it
safe to touch and/or cut through?

Without looking at the picture I'd guess that it's bitumen. Early sign
transformers were potted in bitumen for insulation and weather resisting
purposes. If it's hard, black and resinous then cutting through it is
probably no worse than drilling a hole in a road.

If on the other hand you find a leaky capacitor with sticky goo coming
from it, wear gloves when you dispose of it in case it's PCB. PCB was
widely used as an electrolyte but is now deemed carcinogenic.